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Day 10: Reno and the Closing Arguments
By JJ MacNab | April 4, 2008
Kudos to the US Marshals who have been sitting and standing guard around the courtroom over the last two weeks. When you consider that the defendants are on trial for engaging in an armed standoff with Ed Brown, a man who swore to kill any US Marshal who tried to arrest him, they’ve shown remarkable restraint. And I’ve been watching the Marshals as closely as I’ve watched the defendants and jury. We’ve seen dozens of bombs, zip guns, booby traps, explosives, big guns, and so forth, all purchased or designed to maim and kill US Marshals, yet the people standing guard in the courtroom haven’t shown so much as a smirk or ounce of disrespect to the defendants or proceedings. That’s gotta’ be tough.
Reno’s Cross-Examination by the Prosecution
Had the prosecutors gone through every detail of Reno’s life, as drawn out by Reno’s defense attorney, cross-examination could have gone on for hours. Instead, it was short and sweet — only 45 minutes — and focused only on what Reno did at the Brown house, and why he was doing it.
When Reno first heard about the Ed Brown standoff, he says he didn’t know it was about tax issues. All he knew is that Ed had holed himself up his home. Reno had been “researching” the incidents at Ruby Ridge and Waco at the time.
Reno: I didn’t think [the standoff] would last too long. They would just go in and kill them.
Reno (later): The US Marshals don’t ask questions … I thought this would be another Ruby Ridge.
When he drove from Camp Casey in Texas to New Hampshire in mid-April, 2007, Reno knew the Browns had been convicted. He testified that he thought “the media was suppressing the story” (pretty amusing, considering how much media the event actually generated) and he took a Walther P22 semi-automatic handgun and Beretta Storm 9 mm rifle with him.
While he was living with the Browns, he also purchased a .50 caliber Serbu rifle. He kept the rifle by his bed when he was at the Brown residence.
Prosecutor: Where did you take it?
Reno: To my car.
Prosecutor: Did you take it out of your car?
Reno: Of course I did.
Prosecutor: Where did you take it?
Reno: To Ed and Elaine’s.
Danny also brought guns to the house, “nearly everyone did” but Reno didn’t remember seeing Danny’s nearly identical Serbu rifle.
According to Reno, all three defendants were there to take advantage of Ed’s press. Jason went to the Browns “because there was a cruise missile that hit the Pentagon” and “he was there to defend the Browns … the only thing else he did was drink beer.” Riley was there “because he took a military oath” to defend the Constitution and his research had told him that the income tax laws were unlawful.
Prosecutor: Don’t you care about Ed and Elaine Brown?
Reno: Ed Brown is kind of a jerk… I’m a realist, not a hero.
Prosecutor: Did you tell Jason to arm himself?
Reno: No, I wouldn’t tell a pacifist to buy a gun.
Prosecutor: Jason Gerhard is a pacifist?
Reno: Jason Gerhard is a good man.
Elaine carried a firearm off and on, while Ed carried all the time.
Reno testified that he only talked with Ed once about what they would do if the Marshals came in. Ed said he wouldn’t give in, and that Reno was to run out of the house towards the Marshals. Reno thought it was “a bad idea, but it was Ed’s home.” Ed was set to “resist in any he could — he had beliefs and was willing to die for those beliefs.” Reno said that Elaine was ”a very religious person” and therefore she would only do what Ed told her to do.
Reno says that he brought weapons to the Browns to protect himself from the Marshals, but that he would walk unarmed towards the Marshals in the event of a raid because that was Ed’s plan. This was completely inconsistent with the fact that he slept with the .50 caliber rifle next to his bed, and usually carried either a handgun or rifle while hanging out around the Brown property.
Reno didn’t take weapons into town because he thought it was a bad idea and only carried weapons at the Brown residence. He was carrying a rifle in the photo of the supporters with Brown and he was carrying a rifle during the Randy Weaver video. When asked if he was carrying a gun when the aerial footage was taken during the Dogwalker Day incident, Reno said that he was sure he was carrying a rifle that day.
When Ed brought him a sample zip gun and asked if he could make more, Reno said that he was “for firearms, but against mines. The spring gun had the capability of being used as a mine.”
Reno believed that the Marshals would kill Ed and Elaine Brown and that it would be likely that Reno would die as well.
Prosecutor: You say you’re a man of peace, but did you ever contact a Marshal and try to negotiate a peaceful settlement?
Reno: No. I don’t trust them.
On cross-examination, Danny’s lawyer focused on Danny’s injuries from Dogwalker Day (from the photographs, Danny had what looked like a scratch / bruise on his forehead, and a pimple on his back from the taser puncture.) The attorney also tried to solicit Reno’s expert opinion on the type of weapons that were likely used to shoot at Danny, but Reno said the picture quality was too poor to tell. He also tried to introduce the two hour Aaron Russo pseudo-documentary into the record, but the jury was spared having to watch it.
On redirect, Reno said that his being at the Brown house was out of Ed’s kindness in letting him stay as a guest.
On recross, the government played the King Mob interview where Reno is quite clear what his goal was in going to the Browns. Reno is carrying a weapon in the video. “We have weapons and we know how to defend ourselves.” To see what the jury saw, watch from the 9:01 minute mark to the 9:49 minute mark.
The Prosecution Closing Statement
The prosecutor told the story of the case. He described how the arrest warrants came about for Ed and Elaine and talked about Ed’s many promises to kill anyone who tried to arrest him. There was a call to arms, and many people responded, including the three men on trial.
The defendants were attracted to the significant media attention and wanted to capitalize on it. They wrote articles, blogs, and made lengthy videos and audio recordings. By doing so, ironically, each of them was giving the government what would become the evidence in their criminal trial.
The prosecutor described the various counts against each defendant and gave specific examples of how the defendants were guilty of those crimes. He described the various weapons that each defendant brought with him and purchased and showed how those weapons were used or left with the Browns. A series of emails was shown to the jury where Reno and Danny discuss whether “the house” needs a .50 caliber rifle and are talking about buying ammunition and Tannerite, and whether “we can be more effective.”
The prosecutor reminded the jury about the night Danny thought feds were shooting in the woods.
Danny’s words that night:
This is the real deal … We have rounds in the chambers … I’m willing to die, where is everybody.
He described Jason as someone who was spoiling for a fight and who was very … interested … in his gun.
From an email Jason sent:
I choose to enjoy porn while fondling my gun at Ed Brown’s house. Try it one day. It’s the best of all possible worlds.
The prosecutor reviewed the key points made by each witness. For example, according to the manufacturer, Tannerite was dangerous, and Wolffe had seen the Tannerite devices placed in the trees by Danny. Wolffe also said that Danny and Ed made the zip guns. The prison snitch said that Danny had attached nails to cans. Jason had purchased pipe bomb parts at Home Depot.
It was well-told story and pretty grim for the defendants.
Jason’s Closing Statement
Jason’s lawyer focused on the weakest link in the case against his client, the destructive device charge, and tried to distance Jason from Ed’s many threats.
Danny’s Closing Statement
Danny’s lawyer took a very different approach and called on the jury to exercise their patriotic duty to stand up for Danny’s rights. He compared the defendants to the founding fathers “people who were criminals while the defendants in this case didn’t think they were breaking any laws.”
He claimed that the government’s case was weakened by their own witnesses. The prison snitch was a liar, as was Wolffe, who only cut a deal to save his own skin and to keep his wife from being prosecuted. When the lawyer wanted to rely on something Wolffe said, though, he stated that Wolffe “hadn’t gone completely Benedict Arnold.”
The lawyer said that there was no evidence that the defendants ever saw arrest warrants for the Browns, and no evidence that the defendants knew the Browns had committed a crime. Ed was crazy and the defendants were true believers, and the only thing that was non-peaceful about the Brown situation was Ed himself.
He tried to replay that stupid, grainy Dogwalker tape to cast doubt on what kind of weapon was used to fire at Danny but has yet to explain why it matters. He again showed Danny’s taser mark and bruise and said that the Dogwalker event explained his client’s actions.
Wiberg, Danny’s lawyer, then blamed the Marshals for the Brown standoff. He said that they could have arrested Ed at any time early on, but that they had delayed so that people of like minds could some together and be captured. “We’re talking about Big Brother here.”
Reno’s Closing Statement
Reno’s lawyer said that prior to Reno’s arrival, the Marshals had done nothing, and that during Reno’s stay, they still did nothing. Therefore Reno’s presence didn’t really change the Marshals’ plans. He pointed out that Reno was around for the “covert” phase of the Marshals’ plan, and that he left long before any pipe bombs, explosives, booby traps, or similar devices were built.
The Government’s Rebuttal Statements
The prosecutor talked about the US Marshal’s daily phone calls with Ed Brown in an attempt to get him to surrender. He described the online monitoring and Plainfield surveillance that took place. He repeated that no one tried to kill Danny Riley on Dogwalker Day and that Reno, notwithstanding the focus by Reno’s lawyer on the lack of proof connecting his client to destructive devices, has never even been charged with owning or handling a destructive devices.
Nearing the end
The jury was allowed to go home, and will return on Monday morning to listen to their instructions from the judge and begin deliberating.
Topics: Cirino Gonzalez, Daniel Riley, Ed Brown, Elaine Brown, Jason Gerhard, Robert Wolffe, Tax Deniers | 76 Comments »
April 5th, 2008 at 12:36 am
Okay, Reno – a garden variety idiot, but at least smart enough to avoid being involved with IEDs. I will give him credit for that. Still possible he could have gone down an Oswaldian path.
Danny – an ignorant idiot enjoying a dangerous fantasy life. Still probable he could have gone down a Hinkleyan path.
Jason – An obsessive, conflicted idiot. A pacifist who wants to join the Army to learn about explosives and tactics. Watching porn while stroking his gun – “That boy ain’t right.” Given time and setbacks he is probably incapable of handling, he had the potential to be the next McVeigh.
For all three the patterns are there.
As for what the jury does, I would bet that 85% of the charges against them stick and none of them will fair well in terms of sentencing and Danny will get the worst of all three.
April 5th, 2008 at 1:24 am
[...] Bombs, Taxes, and Red Crayons wrote an interesting post today on Day 10: Reno and the Closing ArgumentsHere’s a quick excerpt” Riley was there “because he took a military oath” to defend the constitution and his research had told him that t he income tax laws were unlawful….When Reno first heard about the Ed Brown standoff, he says he didn’t know it was about tax issues…. [...]
April 5th, 2008 at 3:17 am
Wow.
You folks are obvious rednecks and probably STILL believe that the USA “Liberated” Iraq.
Wake up & make this American what we thought it used to be.
Who will you count on when those same Marshals come after YOU? ? ?
STAND FOR FREEDOM
keep the faith
:{ jmg
April 5th, 2008 at 3:52 am
Seeing as I understand that the tax laws realy are laws and really do apply to me, and I more or less avoid defying federal court decisions just because I don’t agree with them, I think I’m fairly safe in saying that the mashals ain’t goona be comin’ for me.
Grow up Jose, you’re a stain on society.
April 5th, 2008 at 4:51 am
Jose is NOT a stain on society. You grow up Gregg.
No, the Marshalls won’t be knocking on your door because you are afriad to fight for the truth.
Too bad you didnt know the tax laws really are laws before Ed got arrested because if you could have proved it you could have gotten the big reward for showing them the law.You believe it’s a law because you have been told that your whole life and havent taken the time to do the research.
April 5th, 2008 at 5:32 am
Hey CKB, Did you read my responses to your post from day 9?
April 5th, 2008 at 5:47 am
It’s people like you Gregg, that Jose is trying to educate. He is trying his best to get the dumb rednecks to comprehend the truth. But from your post, I believe you are one of the hopeless because you couldnt understand the truth.
You are a waste of space. If you can read, go read a book or do some research. Oh, and learn proper English and how to spell.
April 5th, 2008 at 6:20 am
“You folks are obvious rednecks”
“It’s people like you Gregg, that Jose is trying to educate. He is trying his best to get the dumb rednecks to comprehend the truth.”
I nominate those as the funniest comments on the whole blog. The dumb dumbs who peddle the tax “truth” agenda don’t even know that the “movement” is the brainchild of the white supremacist groups… Truthers, learn your own history, for pete’s sake. It ain’t pretty.
And in case you still don’t get it, the tax denier movement is made up of roughly 500,000 rednecks, plus Jose.
April 5th, 2008 at 7:55 am
I want to thank the writer for posting this day to day account. It was like having a front row seat without being there.
Also Quatloos, I’ve been in the audience since the beginning and even though some of the remarks were a bit abrasive, essentially they were in good humor and I enjoyed reading it.
Personally, I’m glad the trial is over.
April 5th, 2008 at 8:10 am
The truth is, all of these so-called “Tax Protesters,” are really just a bunch of tightwads who use the tax law protest as an excuse to play with guns and bombs. It is hard for grown men to explain to friends and family that they still like to play cowboys and indians in the woods. So, they turn to the Constitution and tax laws in an attempt to justify their little gun/explosive fetish. They think the IRS is a single person behind a curtain, like the Wizard of Oz, and he uses everyone’s money to buy fast cars, yachts, and homes. The IRS and U.S. government is a bunch of people just like them, who go to work and earn a living everyday (well, maybe not like many of them), while paying taxes too……imagine that, government workers paying taxes?? Preach until you are blue in the face, but the fact is: Tax Protester=Tightwad=Gun Nerd, Case closed.
April 5th, 2008 at 9:35 am
Now Reality not ALL Tax Deniers are gun nuts. There are two major branches. There is the poor tax denier who is sure “da ebil gummint” is out to get them. The other group are the well to do and wealthy (often dentists, chiropractors, etc) who are just greedy little piggies.
A love of guns and/or explosives does NOT mean a person is bad. There are lots of perfectly rational people, who obey the law but still enjoy gun ownership and blowing stuff up.
And remember kids and Jose, Danny, Reno and Jason are on trial on a variety of charges stemming from helping CONVICTED FELONS EVADE LAWFUL ARREST. Not for their view on taxes, or “da ebil gummint,” or even gross stupidity.
April 5th, 2008 at 9:47 am
Maybe now Monte will join forces with Jose at his trailer to continue the good fight.
April 5th, 2008 at 2:17 pm
Jose
These people are not only ASLEEP and NOT AWARE, but they have their heads burried so far up their butts , they will never see know when its DAYLIGHT.
April 5th, 2008 at 3:10 pm
Another country heard from. It looks like the momentum of the movement is building. Another few days and there may be 5 or 6 of them.
April 5th, 2008 at 3:27 pm
Rose, in Post #13 has squarely and exactly hit the nail on the head in regards to Danny, Jason and Reno.
Spot on assesment Rose. Spot on.
April 5th, 2008 at 6:46 pm
[...] supporters’ trial ended today Bombs, Taxes and Red Crayons has covered today’s cross-examination of Reno Gonzalez, as well as the closing statements in [...]
April 5th, 2008 at 11:34 pm
What the heck is going on here.
Two American citizens in there own homes, were using there 2nd ammendment right. They were not acting as anything other then a true American.
What is going on with our Court system?
What is going on with America?
Ed and Elaine Brown have under gone torture..Something America is not suppose to be doing.
Some how the government is claiming the property of these two, when they themselves do not own it?
They stalked there house, and land. Took there friend, and cut off there power.
Does anyone know of “No taxation without representation”
Taxation without representation is tyranny.
Is this not one of the reasons The American Colonies broke away from Britian?
They not only stood up for themselves, but for all of America…And how did we repay them.. Hey, lets not give them a right to a free trial, and charge them with conspiracies, and gun toting nuts…
Are you happy with the way our country has turned out?
April 6th, 2008 at 1:30 am
Chrystal – Ed and Elaine Brown were (se if you can follow along) CONVICTED FELONS EVADING CAPTURE.
They had their day in court and could have been represented by one or more attorneys, but instead, Ed chose to act like a little baby essentially threw a prolonged hissy fit because he did not get his greedy, piggy way. Tough. Suck it up Ed. You were sponging off your wife.
Taxation without representation? Puh-leeze. New Hampshire is constitutionally guaranteed representation in Congres by a minimum of 2 senators and at least one representative.
The Browns, of their own free will chose not to pay their income taxes and the final bill, with interest and penalties (the real big hurt), was near or into the seven figure range – that is to say $1 million. If you do not pay your taxes, refuse to pay them and are found CRIMINALLY guilty of not doing so, then yes, the government can come in and sieze any and all of their assets to pay what is owed. Now remember, at any and all points, the Browns could have readily paid for good legal representation, but chose not to. A jury of 12 New Hampshire residents found the Browns guilty.
Now, and try to keep up Chrystal, Jason, Reno and Danny were all AIDING AND ABETTING CONVICTED FELONS EVADE CAPTURE, which is triable. The three made things worse for themselves by (allegedly) bringing and giving guns to a CONVICTED FELON EVADING ARREST, again a triable crime.
That is what this trial about. It hasn’t a damned thing to do with taxes, or how much the Browns owe, or even that the Browns were evading arrest. No sire, it is about the thre aiding and abetting convicted felons evade capture and bringing them guns and making arrangements to hand over goods with which to make explosives and bombs. It seems that the three MAY have had the good sense to not get involved in actual bomb making, but one or more did bring some of the necessary materials.
All three are getting a fre trial. They are not being billed a dime to have this trial. They even have legal representation, paid for (in the case of Reno and perhaps Jason) with tax payer money. Any and all of the three could have had legal representation from the jump had they asked for it.
Ed, Elaine, Jason, Danny and Reno are all adults who made their own decisions and then shrieked and screamed like a 4-year old whose hand got caught in the cookie jar – that makes them little kids, not adults.
And for the record, America did not ask them to “stand up for us,” America does not want them to “stand up for us,” and America does not ned them to “stand up for us.” In that respect, they are no better than the government telling any of us what is best for us, what we want and when we want it. That’s right, they are no better than the government.
April 6th, 2008 at 7:06 am
“True American”? “Torture”? “Stalked”? “Tyranny”?
Quiet, CKB. She’s on a roll.
April 6th, 2008 at 8:29 am
As you dam well know I was NOT referring to Reno, Jason or Danny in that comment #13. Jose knows darn well the ones that are reffered to. NIce to see though that there is supporters posting on here that do have an awareness of what is happening.
April 6th, 2008 at 10:01 am
Chrystal and Rose, theres no possible way you are gonna make blind people see…CKB has the kind of ruthless mentality that would had let Gandhi died in prison because he and his people didnt and couldnt pay a damn british salt tax. Im sure this Ckb is such a bigot he spits and curses ever time he sees Nelson Mandela, ya know he is a convicted felon did years in prison. I bet you he would thinks that the political prisoner Aung San Suu Kyi, deserves to be locked away under house arrests as well because the leaders of her country said she was a criminal for running her mouth about the way things she sees wrong going on in her homeland. I bet CKB is the kind of christianly gentleman that whacks off in his jacuzzi everytime a brown person dies. We see how much of a christian he really is with his words and attitude towards others, well he forgot that Jesus doesnt like money changers, he forgot that jesus died for questionning authority and shaking the system up, he also has forgotten a few stints in prison some of JC’s homeboys did from association. Jesus also hung out with tax collectors that changed careers and associated with prostitutes too. But Just like a good christian im sure he has forgotten his good book says about such subjects.
April 6th, 2008 at 10:56 am
So tell, us, Donna, what does the Good Book say about murdering Marshals, Judges, and their families?
April 6th, 2008 at 11:05 am
Where are you stupid, ignorant cows getting the idea I am a bigot and/or racist, other than in your own addled, fantasy riddled minds?
Point out an instance where I denigrated a specific ethic, religious, or social group. Go ahead, try.
That is the core of your problem, you have no reading comprehension, you spew back what you want the person to have said, not what they actually said. That is the sign of a small, weak, untrained mind.
Believe me there are pleanty of people to loath and despise, but I am fair, I do it across any and all ethnic, religious, or social boundries.
For the record. Both Gandhi and Mandela took the right approaches in dealing with their respective governments. Fortunately, for Gandhi, the British realized that trying to keep India would be a zero sum game and after WWII, indian independence was a fait accompli. Ironically, Gandhi was asasinated by a fellow countryman who was a radical Hindi who opposed Ganhdi’s views on Pakistan.
Mandelawas also handled very poorly by a minority government trying to maintain control over a dienfranchised majority. At least they did not do to Mandela what the did to Stephen Biko. The only thing the South African government achieved by keping Mandela in jail for so long was to merely delay the inevitable. In fact, Mandela was probably a more powerful figure in prison than if he had been free.
Myanmar is a military dictatorship that briefly tried the waters of democracy and immediately spat it out when election results did not go their way. Ms. Kyi is a gigantic thorn in their side and one that cannot be removed, but which will be among the catalysts that eventually topples the military troika that rules Myanmar.
Then there is Tibet and the Dali Lama. No matter how hard the PRC tries to whitewash it, the ugliness of PRC occupation comes out. Like Lady MacBeth, they will never be able to get the blood of their hands.
And for the record you ignotrant squealing sows, I have attended school where in my class, I was the minority, as in the only white face in the class. That was a real fun time to be in school, lots of fun. Learned to eat sushi and sashimi, helped a Chinese kid learn English.
So go ahead, tell the world where I assaulted a particular group of people, you can’t because I am an equal opportunity loather. And remember, Jesus threw the money changers out of the temple, not that he necesarily disliked all money changers, he just disliked them in the temple – probably the temple was getting a cut, which meant the temple was promoting the gouging of its own people.
And if I have dumped on Reno and his dad, IT IS NOT BECAUSE THEY HAVE A HISPANIC SURNAME, but because they are acting/have acted like idiots. Acting like an idiot is not restricted to race, creed, or religion. Some would say our president is proof of that.
Also, you know nothing of my ethnicity, for all you know, my mother’s family could have arrived in the US from Mexico and been absolutely dirt poor – 3 room shack, family of 7, dirt floors dirt poor.
April 6th, 2008 at 11:08 am
Let it go, CKB. You’re waging a war of wits with unarmed opponents. Personal attacks on each other distracts from the real story.
April 6th, 2008 at 11:45 am
CKB has done nothing wrong all of his post are personel attacks supported by the admin.Free Speech prevailed on this site. Does not mean I agreed with any or all that was spewed here but the fact that it was allowed to spew is what patriots have laid there life on the line for. I just wonder if CKB and the admin. would fight to defend any god given or constitutional right.
April 6th, 2008 at 11:53 am
Jim, you do know that Admin is the person who owns and runs this site and is allowing people to post freely???
I’m asking CKB to tone down the insults.
Free speech is irrelevant on a website, by the way. This site is private property and whether or not the owner allows someone to post has nothing to do with the 1st Amendment. You should try reading it.
Congress shall make no law … abridging the freedom of speech
I’m not Congress. I’m the owner of a website.
April 6th, 2008 at 11:57 am
Well, let’s just say that I am no fan of many provisions of the PATRIOT ACT, no fan of the governmental desire to ban guns, or add more useless laws to the books and certainly feel that politicians and seemingly know-nothing administrators have all but destroyed vast parts of our educational system. Also really dislike it when the government gets pissy when a reporter won’t reveal their sources. And I really loath the “us vs. them” mentality in politics and government today. It is counterproductive and serves no purpose.
However, people who are so willfully ignorant to go into court to face felony charges without a lawyer, even when they could afford to hire one, or have one appointed to them, and then complain about the results and evade lawful arrest, I have less than zero sympathy for. Those types of people are not a “political cause,” but merely dumber than a sack of hammers who have reaped a very bitter harvest from what they have sown and are complaining about it. F M
And here’s the other thing OB/JH may have forgotten, no where in the Constitution does it say that anybody has to listen to someone exercising their right to free speech. Lalalalalalalalalala I can’t hear you….
April 6th, 2008 at 11:58 am
CKB , sad that you don’t have enough openmindedness that you have to call the ladies with a different opinion than yours Sows and cows. I won’t stoop to our level.
April 6th, 2008 at 12:34 pm
“Rose Says:
April 6th, 2008 at 11:58 am
CKB , sad that you don’t have enough openmindedness that you have to call the ladies with a different opinion than yours Sows and cows. I won’t stoop to our level.”
Don’t worry neither will I.
April 6th, 2008 at 12:54 pm
COWS only sse things in BLACK AND WHITE , and I’ll Tell you I see a LOT OF GREY ISSUES. Besides I hoe I don’t look like EITHER, Cow or SOW
April 6th, 2008 at 1:41 pm
Okay, as posted elsewhere I will retract the cow/sow comment and apologize for using it.
Now, while some of you may think I am an inflexible weenie, I have learned something today I did not know, cows only se in black and white (and grays).
I will even agree with Rose that the world is mainly shades of gray and rigidly sticking with an ideology (being an idealog) is both close minded and dangerous.
As for how you look – this is a complete W.A.G. – under the age of 40, but over the age of 25, shoulder length brunnette (5% chance of redhead, 15% chance of being raven-haired) usually in a pony-tail. Very little use of make up. About 5′ 4″ around 120 or so. Brown eyes, light tan and generally considered cute and fun to have over at the barbecue. And usually wears jeans, t-shirt and sneakers, possibly a CW fan, some light and classic rock tossed into the play list. Decent pool and darts player, maybe even bowling – more for the camaraderie than the competition. One tattoo, either on the ankle,shoulder blade or derriere – the tattoo is small and cute in nature. And prefers pick-up trucks and SUVs to any sort of fancy-schmancy Euro-Asian foo-foo-mobile.
I could be wrong though.
April 6th, 2008 at 2:16 pm
OMG you do have a sense of humour:) and I am sorry we got off on the WRONG foot, but I don’t think we are totally that far apart on a lot of our views. If you have checked on myspace, Cirinos and Joses site both have me as FRIEND, Look me up and I will add you.hehe If you’re talking about ME , you will see where you’re right and wrong. lol
April 6th, 2008 at 7:19 pm
Evading capture? Whatever..There was NO reason for them to be under the governments all seeing eye anyway.
Look, I know what happened with the Browns, I dont let the so called ‘freedom of the press’ tell me what happened and what to believe…
They were good people, and if this happened to me, I would throw a fit too!
and ya, I know the trial isnt about taxes, there not getting a free trial..If it was about taxes it would liberate everyone..But no, thats a secret were not suppose to know..Just because someone says do it, dosnt mean its right…
DO YOU ALL WANNA KNOW WHAT THIS IS REALLY ABOUT?
THEN WATCH THIS PLEASE..
America Freedom to Fascism
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1DwDC62o2bY
You want to know the truth behind things, dont watch your local PROGRAMMING, go find things out for yourself…
http://www.infowars.com
This is just the beginning of the downfall of America. Either join up with the Elite’s, and let our country go down the drain, the dollar crash and gasoline go to $5.00 a gallon.. Or wake up, stand up for your country and your personal freedoms and rights!!!
April 6th, 2008 at 7:27 pm
Very good information Chrystal
April 6th, 2008 at 7:34 pm
Just because you call something a documentary doesn’t make it true. Russo’s movie is filled with misinformation and outright lies, and he rightly assumed that his viewers would simply trust rather than verify what he said.
Ed and Elaine Brown were found guilty by a jury of 12. Under our Constitution, they had a right to appeal their verdict, which they didn’t. Instead, they trashed the Constitution and took the violent route.
Now, instead of spending 2.5 years in prison for tax crimes, they will likely spend the rest of their lives in jail.
They made stupid decisions, and they lost, and the people who supported them are (and will continue to be) prosecuted for assisting convicted felons.
These are the cold, hard facts. The political rhetoric and Koolaid tax theories don’t change these facts.
April 6th, 2008 at 7:40 pm
Thanks for being courteous…I have done A LOT of research on this topic..I have learned more than I want to know about this, and other things..I know the Browns, and I know what happened..
April 6th, 2008 at 7:44 pm
Since you know the Browns, perhaps you can fill us in on Ed Brown’s plan to put a bullet in Elaine’s brain.
April 6th, 2008 at 7:46 pm
Better to die, then to be sent to a FEMA Concentration camp..There are many in America!
Tortured daily, like the Jews in the Nazi camps..
April 6th, 2008 at 7:51 pm
Ed’s plan was to kill Elaine and then blame the Marshals for her death so that all of his sheeple supporters would finally get off their comfy couches and start killing feds.
That Ed, what a hero.
April 6th, 2008 at 7:53 pm
I havnt herd that, it sounds crazy..?? Did ED say that,when he was feeling well, or after days of torture, and no sleep..Cause people talk crazy and brake after a while…
April 6th, 2008 at 7:58 pm
Ed talking crazy? Imagine that.
Since you know all about Ed, you’ve read the newspaper profile about him from the mid 1990s, right? He was bat shit insane then, too.
Or how about the violent stand he threatened a few years ago because he didn’t want to pay property taxes?
April 6th, 2008 at 8:00 pm
If that was his intention, then you can be VERY assured that NONE of the supporters would have ever been aware of that plan, or helped him in any way. It does proove my point also, that I do believe ED used people.
April 6th, 2008 at 8:02 pm
Yes, I knew all of that….
But I cant tell you enouph, unless you just want me to go off about EVERYTHING.. But, I am respecting your page, and the fact that you posted what I had to say…
Thank you for that..just please, I ask you..Not everything is as it seems..If you would like to know more, is out there..Gotta do a lot of research, cross reference everything..Or, just ask…:D
April 6th, 2008 at 8:04 pm
“If that was his intention, then you can be VERY assured that NONE of the supporters would have ever been aware of that plan, or helped him in any way. It does proove my point also, that I do believe ED used people.”
I learned about the plan because various supporters told me about it.
Ed used people, and people used Ed for his publicity. Ugly stuff.
April 6th, 2008 at 8:06 pm
..I disagree. I dont understand what he obtained from all of this if he was just using us. Maybe he has lost a little weight in prison, and has not so many bills now, hes doing real good…? Publicity on our part.. We dont need him for that..:D
April 6th, 2008 at 8:07 pm
“Thank you for that..just please, I ask you..Not everything is as it seems..If you would like to know more, is out there..Gotta do a lot of research, cross reference everything..Or, just ask…:D”
Chrystal, instead of posting cryptic messages, please feel free to post anything that adds to the story or corrects what I or others have posted.
You’re free to post here as much as you like. If you prefer to send information privately, my email is info@redcrayons.net.
April 6th, 2008 at 8:10 pm
WOW I am pretty close to a lot of this, and was NEVER aware any of the supporters knew this , nor do I believe they would keep such a plan.
April 6th, 2008 at 8:11 pm
Ok..Thanks…:D I will post more…
April 6th, 2008 at 8:19 pm
I’ve always wondered if Jose knew Ed’s plan. Here’s what Jose posted on his MySpace page the day he got back from the Brown house last June:
“I found [Ed] to be an arrogant, ambitious, self-serving man that is using everyone around him (including Elaine) for his own personal political gain. From what little I could gather, he is looking for ’supporters’ willing to DIE for him but he has no intentions of dying himself.”
April 6th, 2008 at 8:36 pm
Those quotes you posted from Ed back in 2007..They were truth. I do not see where your trying to go with those? They did not make Ed seem crazy or bad??
The story about Ed killing his wife to blame the feds, is just bullocks…
This is much more than a tax case..Its about everything.. Yes, the Illuminati are the puppet masters behind everything. The president, that is our president is part of one of these society’s, and so his his cousin Kerry. They are Skull and Bones members, they did not deny it on national television when asked about it. They take an oath higher then the oath they take to get into office.. While were on the subject Hillery is a Bilderberg member..Same with her..They are just some of the Elites that are crapping on our country..
Ed did not use his friends, and we were not there to use him..
April 6th, 2008 at 8:42 pm
Correct me if WRONG, BUT that does NOT sound like a supporter of EDS to me . It prooves what I said about Jose and Reno all along, they see ED for who he is. Jose would stand by his word, as that post accurately discribes.
April 6th, 2008 at 8:48 pm
Chrystal, if you want to post your thoughts about the Ed Brown standoff and supporter trial, you’re welcome to.
But cutting and pasting tax protest garbage from other websites just means that I’ll be deleting those posts.
April 6th, 2008 at 8:50 pm
It’s about the trial…Ed and Elaine is going through all of this because of the Tax issue..So, I am informing people of why Ed and Elaine did what they did..In order to understand all this madness you need to know the source!
April 6th, 2008 at 8:54 pm
Thats it for me. If you want to just sit around, believe the Media, fine..Im done here..Theres only so much you can do.. Most people prefer to just wake up, go to work, then watch a little t.v.
Maybe many will wake up when there giving up there guns, for bread, or paying $10 in gasoline with the Amero, while saluting a North American Flag..Open borders for all…Just like the E.U.
Thanks for letting me post!
April 6th, 2008 at 9:01 pm
If you read it on the Internet, it must be true!
Watch out for those evil Illimunati elites, Chystal, and please come back if you want to talk more about the Brown supporter trials.
April 6th, 2008 at 9:02 pm
“So, I am informing people of why Ed and Elaine did what they did.”
It doesn’t matter why Ed and Elaine did what they did. What matters in this trial is why Reno, Jason, and Danny did what they did.
April 6th, 2008 at 9:14 pm
This is for you….You obviously do not seem to believe in the society’s these Elites are in..
Here is Bush and Kerry, they are asked about skull and bones and do not deny it during interview..They just change the subject…Decide for yourself..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z1U-9tO9V4o&feature=related
April 7th, 2008 at 9:02 am
It’s a social club on campus and there’s nothing to deny. The Skull and Bones exists, they have a pretty building, own an island, and weren’t even secretive until the 1970s.
They file annual public tax returns with the IRS and operate as a public charity. I’d post the most recent one for you, but I don’t think it would do much good.
April 7th, 2008 at 9:33 am
Question? Are you a paid informant for the marshals. No, of course not hu!………..
April 7th, 2008 at 9:42 am
Nope. I’ve never worked for the government, and I doubt I ever will.
Every true conspiracy theorist really needs one of these:
http://zapatopi.net/afdb/
April 7th, 2008 at 10:36 am
Admin, could you have given me a heads up so could buy some Alcoa stock first…..
April 7th, 2008 at 7:51 pm
Monty Says:
April 7th, 2008 at 7:47 pm
Wow Rose,CKB has been halfway decent to you. He spewed filth and called me terrible names. Think maybe he’s coming around? I see he’s toned down the horrible name calling.
Naw. There is no hope for him/her, unless he gets thearpy. He’s (SHE?) vicious. Maybe the praying for him/her actually helped.
April 7th, 2008 at 8:07 pm
roguetrooper Says:
April 5th, 2008 at 9:47 am
Maybe now Monte will join forces with Jose at his trailer to continue the good fight.
Roguetrooper, it’s Monty not Monte.
I’ve begged Jose to let me join forces with him at his trailer and he won’t let me. Not that he doesn’t like me, he preferrs to be byhimself.
I’d go if he would let me!
April 7th, 2008 at 8:21 pm
You have it all wrong Monty. I am actually a nice guy, good sense of humor, kind to animals, a virtual paragon……a prince among men.
And for the record, I hardly called you anything. In a high dudgeon, the paint on your monitor would have started to blister, you would also needed a dictionary, two shots of bourbon and a seatbelt for your chair. And it would have been done with no profanity.
What does irk me, vex me, is when people say or imply things are stupid and a waste of time – like giving blood, donating to charity, you know, compassionate, help out your fellow man stuff.
Or when someone tries to blow smoke up my yoohoo by claiming how one fool or another is doing x, y, or z to help me, help America, whether or not we need/want or asked for the help.
And even if I think Monty is a complete tool, if he were to contact me during the course of busines and ask me a question that I would normally answer, even if I knew he was the same Mony that posts here, what he would get is a professional, courteous, honest answer to his question.
If anything, I think Monty needs to lighten up and let go of the constant sturm und drang and making out everything as a cause, or government plot, or that everything has to be taken so deadly seriously. It’s cheapening and shortening your existence Monty. After all, no one is getting out of here alive.
“It doesn’t matter if you are a king or lowly street sweeper, sooner of later you dance with the Reaper.”
April 8th, 2008 at 6:43 am
#Roguetrooper, it’s Monty not Monte.
I’ve begged Jose to let me join forces with him at his trailer and he won’t let me. Not that he doesn’t like me, he preferrs to be byhimself.
I’d go if he would let me!”
Monty, it’s thinking like yours which brought this situation to where currently resides. People are in jail, people pending charges, lives ruined and property lost.
Is there a need to go on (there probably is, but it would most certainly be lost on you anyway)?
You sound like you’ve reached the level of porn and weapons that Jason claimed.
April 8th, 2008 at 10:49 am
Hey Roguetrooper, the “You sound like you’ve reached the level of porn and weapons that Jason claimed.” comment to Monty might be a little much. After all, it takes a very special person, like Jason, to watch porn and stroke off his weapon and get off on the whole experience.
I don’t think Monty is that special.
If it makes you feel better Monty, I prefer to be left alone and wouldn’t want you living with me. Heck, I bet lots of people feel that way about you. I wouldn’t want you living with me because you are not (a) female between 35 and 55 and (b) cute.
April 8th, 2008 at 5:07 pm
I hate porn. I Love my Country. I donate to Charities. I try to protect the constitution. I love animals, I love people, I love life, I hate war, I feel so sorry for our soldiers. I am very intelligent, I could go on and on but I’m not wasting my time here. You are mean CKB and roguetrooper. Talk about me all you want because I wont be back here.
Guess what CKB? I’m a 36 year old drop dead gourgeous lady. HA!
The Jose trailer remark was a joke morons
April 8th, 2008 at 5:09 pm
To CKB and rudetrooper,The Jose remark was a joke morons. I hate porn. I Love my Country. I donate to Charities. I try to protect the constitution. I love animals, I love people, I love life, I hate war, I feel so sorry for our soldiers. I am very intelligent, I could go on and on but I’m not wasting my time here. You are mean CKB and roguetrooper. Talk about me all you want because I wont be back here.
Guess what CKB? I’m a 36 year old drop dead gourgeous lady. HA!
April 8th, 2008 at 6:28 pm
All I know is I stand with my FRIENDS, and you can agree or disagree, but there is VERY few people in this country willing to express an opinion even. Nice to see, wheather we agree or disagree, this forum still has all of us discussing and showing different viewpoints to each other.
April 8th, 2008 at 10:05 pm
“You folks are obvious rednecks”
“It’s people like you Gregg, that Jose is trying to educate. He is trying his best to get the dumb rednecks to comprehend the truth.”
I nominate those as the funniest comments on the whole blog. The dumb dumbs who peddle the tax “truth” agenda don’t even know that the “movement” is the brainchild of the white supremacist groups… Truthers, learn your own history, for pete’s sake. It ain’t pretty.
And in case you still don’t get it, the tax denier movement is made up of roughly 500,000 rednecks, plus Jose.
YOU ARE SO WRONG. THE REDNECKS ARE THE ONES THAT DONT HAVE ENOUGH SENSE TO EVEN COMPREHEND WHAT IS HAPPENING. THE REDNECKS ARE MORE WORRIED ABOUT KILLING DEER, DRINKING BUDWISER,WATCHING NASCAR AND 4 WHEELING.
THE EDUCATED KNOW THE TRUTH. THE REDNECKS ARE DUMB AS THEY COME. THEY DONT EVEN KNOW WHAT THE CONSTITUTION IS.OBVIOUSLY, YOU DON’T KNOW THE MEANING OF THE WORD REDNECK.JOSES FRIENDS ARE PATRIOTS THAT CARE ABOUT THIS COUNTRY AND HAVE ENOUGH SENSE TO DO SOMETHING BESIDES SIT AROUND AND CALL PEOPLE NAMES WHEN THEY KNOW NOTHING ABOUT THAT PERSON. JOSE AND CIRINO, AND THEIR PATRIOT FRIENDS ARE HEROS. DEAL WITH IT.
THE CHILDREN OF THE POOR SOLDIERS IN IRAQ ARE GROWING UP WITHOUT THEIR FATHERS TOO BECAUSE OF A WAR THAT SHOULD NEVER HAVE BEEN STARTED TO BEGIN WITH. WHILE YOU TALK BAD ABOUT CIRINO NOT BEING THERE FOR HIS KIDS RIGHT NOW, THINK ABOUT ALL THE SOLDIERS THAT ARE NOT WITH THEIR KIDS EITHER.
DO YOU THINK THEY WOULD RATHER BE IN IRAQ FIGHTING A USELESS WAR, STEPPING OVER BLOODY BABIES, OR AT HOME WITH THEIR OWN CHILDREN. 85% OF THE SOLDIERS DONT WANT TO BE THERE ANYMORE.
AND IT IS NOT ALL ABOUT THE TAX ISSUE. IT’S ABOUT THE WAR AND OUR FREEDOMS.
DONT LUMP WHITE SUPREMACIST GROUPS WITH PATRIOTS AND FREEDOM FIGHTERS. EVERYONE HAS THEIR OWN AGENDA.
April 9th, 2008 at 5:19 am
Liza wrote, “WHILE YOU TALK BAD ABOUT CIRINO NOT BEING THERE FOR HIS KIDS RIGHT NOW, THINK ABOUT ALL THE SOLDIERS THAT ARE NOT WITH THEIR KIDS EITHER.”
If they gave a Pulitzer for non-sequiturs, this year’s competition would have just ended.
“DONT LUMP WHITE SUPREMACIST GROUPS WITH PATRIOTS AND FREEDOM FIGHTERS”
Why not? They do themselves.
April 9th, 2008 at 10:45 am
Monty, here is a truism that works for either gender – “No matter how drop dead gorgeous a woman (or man) is, if they are single, it means somebody, somewhere got tired of their sh*t and booted them.”
Sometimes that is a burden we beautiful people must bear. Right Monty? And when you are intelligent as well as beautiful, it can be very difficult to find your equal.
I know this is a problem for me. How about you Monty?
April 9th, 2008 at 9:00 pm
Monty got killed in a car wreck this morning on her way to St Louis. She was a wonderful person and had been going through some very hard times. Her mom died 2 months ago. I want you all to know that she loved all people that cared about others, her country and had a hugh and generous heart. She also had a close relationship with God. Now even closer.
Please keep her in your prayers, Thank you,B.P.
April 10th, 2008 at 1:34 am
Oh my goodness. That is awful and just stinks. My deepest, heartfelt condolences to her family and friends.
If she had pets, please make sure someone has taken them in and is looking after them. Pets do miss their owners and will need extra attention. They also provide a tangible connection to her.
April 17th, 2008 at 8:56 am
(very skeptical about comment #73)
April 8th, 2009 at 12:18 pm
Look at the statements made in this story. If everyone who stood against the government was found as a “possible terrorist” for standing their ground no matter what their behavior court papers must be served for a non violent crime and an arrest does not need to be made. No matter how weird someone may be the fact still stands that there was no crime committed. No body was shot, no body was violated except the browns. Bottom line, the police instead of personally serving papers without a threat of arrest chose to go commando and took dire advantage of their authority. There is nothing wrong with someone video taping themselves and taking audio, not even if they were taping chimpanzees holding AK 47 assault rifles, as long as the rounds never reach another humans body, a man has every right to protect himself from enemies both foreign and domestic! Enemies that pose a threat, these officers posed the primary threat to both residence and the every day citizen evenly remotely involved. This needs to be challenged again in a court of law. You CANT put some one in JAIL for what they COULD have done!