« Outbursts in the courtroom | Main | The official verdicts »
Reno's verdict
By JJ MacNab | April 10, 2008
The jury found Reno guilty on couts two and three, and the judge declared a mistrial on the remaining two counts.
Furthermore, the defendants and their lawyers are prohibited from communicating with any member of the jury. The judge has done a very good job protecting the jurors throughout the trial.
If any jurors are now reading the blog and would like to comment on their experience, please feel free but I urge you not to post under your own name.
Topics: Cirino Gonzalez | 80 Comments »
April 10th, 2008 at 12:42 pm
For the proletariats out here, what were counts two and three? And what were the accounts the jury was hung on (explosives and conspiracy is my W.A.G.)?
April 10th, 2008 at 1:04 pm
The Third Superceding Indictment is attached. Count 1 was conspiracy; Counts 2 and 3 boil down to aidding and abetting Ed and Elaine and interfering with the US Marshalls; the other counts deal with firearms/explosives (4 and 5).
This result sort of seems to me to make sense — given the facts as reported by the newspaper and Admin on this forum.
Since I know so little criminal law, I do have a question: Since the DJ declared a mistrial as to Counts 1 and 4-5, is there a new trial (absent the government dropping the other counts) or — since jeopardy attached — does the mistrial mean that there can be no new trial?
April 10th, 2008 at 1:06 pm
Sorry, I should have noted that the Cirino was not charged with the firearms count dealing with explosives.
April 10th, 2008 at 1:11 pm
A mistrial due to a hung jury can be retried.
I’m betting the government will not.
April 10th, 2008 at 1:14 pm
I agree with what Voyager said– a mistrial due to hung jury can be retried, notwithstanding the Double Jeopardy clause, but, having gotten convictions on two counts, the Government will probably not re-try Reno.
April 10th, 2008 at 1:19 pm
The government will probably interview the jury and then make a decision. Based on their own expert witnesses, the government probably won’t refile explosives charges against him, as there was a paucity of evidence against Reno on that matter.
The jurors will probably tell the government that they did not think Reno capable of being involved in a conspiracy and was more of an outsider looking in, rather than being an insider. Conspiracy is such a bearcat to prove, the government will probably say “screw it” and move on to more fertile grounds.
What will be more interesting is what his sentence will be.
April 10th, 2008 at 1:39 pm
As I understand it, Reno was convicted on one conspiracy count but not the other.
The two convictions are probably enough to put him away for a few years, hence my prediction of no re-trial.
April 10th, 2008 at 1:45 pm
Reno should be thanking Ed now. If Ed hadn’t kicked Reno out when he did, Reno would have been convicted like Danny and Jason.
I agree with others who think there will be no retrial.
April 10th, 2008 at 1:49 pm
Reno was never charged with handling explosives.
I predict that the government will indeed retry him on the two hung jury counts, and may very well add new charges. Don’t forget that this is just phase one of the Brown supporter criminal trials.
There’s also that pesky little issue: what was Reno planning to do in Iraq?
April 10th, 2008 at 2:23 pm
going with Cindy Sheehan to help with the peace movement, to help rebuild homes for Iraqis, amongst rebuilding projects, as well as interacting in outreach programs for troops, for those whom are at risk for suicide, and those whom will be returning home disabled.
also a building project that was going to be built there, deconstructed in parts then sent here to Camp Casey that i was gonna help reconstruct with the help of others to be a place for those returning that have no home to come back too. If I can some how download the picture of the building from my phone that we were intending on building, I will try to post it soon. You all may think Reno is a monster, and have gone out of your way to demonized a truely sweetheart of a man.
April 10th, 2008 at 3:07 pm
For the record, we have pilloried Reno not so much for being a monster, but for being an incredibly stupid for getting involved in aiding and abetting convicted felons evade the law.
As my mother told me on many an ocassion, “What the Hell were you thinking?! Were you even thinking?!” It also applies to Reno.
There were lots of good causes out there he could have gotten involved with and NONE of them involved aiding convicted felons evade the law. But no, in one incredibly foolish decision he screwed up his life, those of his family, especially those of his kids and any number of people he could have helped through charitable works.
That my dear is what really frosts me about your sweet ba-boo.
April 10th, 2008 at 4:04 pm
VanMeter Says: “You all may think Reno is a monster, and have gone out of your way to demonized a truely sweetheart of a man.”
Reno hitched his horse to the wrong wagon. Reno testified that if the Marshal’s came for Ed, he would run towards them while unarmed in an effort to avoid being part of the confrontation. If that were true, why was he constantly armed? I am not an anti-RKBA by any means, but carrying a gun at Ed & Elaine’s house was foolish to an extreme if Reno did not intend to help defend E&E.
April 10th, 2008 at 4:47 pm
Actually, running towards law enforcement officers conducting a raid can be bad for your health. Has Reno already forgotten his Army training?
It’s serpentine, serpentine, serpentine and then lie very flat on the ground, face down, arms and legs splayed out. You make a small target and when Five-O rols up on you, they can see you are no threat – which really reduces the risks of beatings, taxings and lead projectile hole boring.
April 10th, 2008 at 6:21 pm
CKB, here is a thought , just for a different viewpoint. Maybe Cirino never intended to need that army training, because he only ment to defend. When things got agressive, I believe the decission for him to leave the BROWNS was mutual.
April 10th, 2008 at 6:38 pm
Just a little info
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mistrial#Mistrials
April 10th, 2008 at 6:38 pm
What Ms. Van Meter says about Reno’s intentions in Iraq sounds pretty much like what I recall him telling me, back when I was considering interviewing him for Last Free Voice, and obviously before he was arrested. So I really don’t think he made that up just for the trial, since he was discussing it even before then.
I wanted to interview him about why he left Ed and Elaine’s and his experiences there, and he didn’t really want to talk about that. That’s why I never went through with the interview, but I left it open to interview him when he firmed up plans to go to Iraq with Ms. Sheehan. It seems like those plans fell through not long after I spoke with him via MySpace, and that’s why the interview never took place.
For the record, I didn’t get the impression that Reno was a monster at all; in fact, he was pretty nice to me, considering he didn’t know me from Adam. He seemed to have his heart in the right place, even though he made a terrible error in aligning himself with Ed and Elaine. He bought their tax denial stuff, if I recall correctly, but I’ll have to double check. Other than that, he was completely into his antiwar projects.
I’ll have to find the old MySpace emails (if someone could tell me when he left E&E’s, that would help a lot since MySpace messages are not searchable).
April 10th, 2008 at 6:42 pm
he left mid to late June, later the same day his father and brother both left Browns.
April 10th, 2008 at 6:55 pm
Ah Rose, you misunderstood. It is never, ever, ever a good idea to run towards law enforcement if they are in the process of raiding a place. They can be a tad hypersensitive and the results could be unpleasant.
The Army training is in the case of gun fire, you stay low, serpentine and when in doubt, hug the ground. You want to become small and seemingly harmless.
April 10th, 2008 at 6:59 pm
Thanks, Ms. VanMeter (sorry I misspelled your name before). I’ll look to find those emails.
April 10th, 2008 at 7:38 pm
CKB , thanks for clarifying. I think we’re both saying the same thing in different ways hehe.
April 10th, 2008 at 7:52 pm
I too took the fifth in this case not many of th othere wittnesses did,the court room. but by refusing service of a supena from the investagator for Reno’s Lawyer. Danny and Jasons Lawyers never spoke directly to me. I had alot to share with the 3 Attorneys some good.some Bad and some just plain ugly, the problem was they were working against each other and couldn’t come up with questions that would be helpful for all, not just one.
The Goverment didn’t want me there because my testimony and the evidence I could produce would show that I was working with an attorney and somewhat with Ed and Elaine to bring about a peaceful soulution. they the Marshalls were aware of my efforts from montoring my phone ,my emails and my myspace messages.( ed from one day to the next would flip flop back and forth in the end I came to belive Ed wanted to committ sucide by cop .this may have seem to him as his only way out. I left.) Danny, Jason and Bob Woffle all knew this was going on and were in support of my efforts. I do not feel bad about not testifing for if asked the wrong question or questions I would have had to tell the truth and the truth would have lead to most of the convictions that the jury has found.
April 10th, 2008 at 9:39 pm
Out of curiosity, when is sentencing scheduled?
April 10th, 2008 at 11:35 pm
Gee Clint, the 12 men and women that voted to convict Ed and Elain Brown were of the opinion, beyond a reasonable doubt, that the Browns had evaded paying income taxes for several years.
Further,m these people were from the same general area as Ed and Elaine, with similar experiences and beliefs to draw on and those 12 men and women found Ed and Elaine guilty.
Of course the fact that Ed and Elaine were too stupid or too pig-headed to have legal representation is not the court’s fault or the jury’s fault, that rests with the Browns. Ditto Ed running like a little cry-baby when he didn’t get his way is not the court’s fault, or the jury’s either.
Oh wait, you mean “fair and impartial trial” as in anything the Browns do is okay and they should be fre and any other verdict than that is OBVIOUSLY the result of an impartial trial.
Clint, you are just another know-nothing, mewling, cry-baby who has the social development of a four year old. A “man” (I use the term loosely) who shrieks whines and throws a hissy-fit when he doesn’t get his way and expects the entire world to cater to his childish nonsense.
Tell you what Clint, when your ‘nads drop, when you realize the world doesn’t owe you a damned thing and when you move out of your parent’s basement, then you might have an opinion worth listening too. Until then, please play quietly and nicely at the children’s table and don’t speak unless spoken to, because you bring nothing to the table.
And for the record, to date, while some people have avoided criminal charges stemming from not paying taxes, they have ALL still owed and had to pay every dime of taxes, penalties and interest charged. Like all greedy little piggies they made some fine cracklin’s, just as you will when you start wearing big boy pants and work at a real job.
Again, go back to the kids table and clap that cake-hole shut, the adults are trying to talk.
April 11th, 2008 at 12:34 am
you say the world doesnt owe anyone anything, well thats a two way street we dont owe the world the fruits of our labor and should not be taxed.
CKB you are the one ranting and raving like a friggin loon anytime anyone states their opinion if it doesnt align with your school of thought, anytime someone has spoken up in support you wig the fuck out man. Maybe theres a pill for your condition… what would be the prescription for cronic ass holeness? you may need to see a doctor about that before it spreads, i hear its contageous to those of like mindedness.
April 11th, 2008 at 6:56 am
Let’s stick to the facts: The 16th Amendment was NEVER ratified, which means, there is NO income tax law. Ed & Elaine Brown broke no law. The judge failed to show them the law. Tom Cryer won his case and PROVED there is no income tax law. Reno is not a criminal, he is a good and honest man, polite and thoughtful of others. Cheers to Reno for throwing the “Jury Nullification” bone out there into the public, most jurers have no idea what jury nullification even is because the courts do not, never have, and never will play on fair ground. They want to keep the jurers ignorant of their rights. Meantime, we keep throwing more NON VIOLENT offenders in our jails and prisons that feed the beast that over taxes the working man and woman, and inflates a corrupt, criminal, predatory government….just like the housing market…the government too, is at it’s maximum bubble. Ask yourself, who are the violent offenders? The U.S. Marshals, they killed Randy Weaver’s wife and his little boy..did they do time? They broke Elaine’s wrist during the hostage taking, she broke no law, the law does not exist, they tortured and gassed Ed, who also broke no law, how many innocent children did they murder at Waco? What did they do to Congressman Hansen? The real criminals, predators and murderers are wearing badges, posing as law enforcement, have any of them been charged with crimes? Those are your real VIOLENT OFFENDERS that should be locked up and please throw away the key. Americans only want to be safe and be kept from terrorizm carried out by these thugs that call themselves law enforcement from any number of alphabet soup of agencies, they have gone unchecked and operate like serial killers without a conscious, that is not the real tragedy though, the real tragedy is that most Americans have been brainwashed into thinking they are doing something good and protecting us from harm.
April 11th, 2008 at 8:13 am
“Tom Cryer won his case and PROVED there is no income tax law. ”
So how come Cryer still had to pay his taxes?
Does OJs aquittal prove there is no law against murder?
April 11th, 2008 at 8:21 am
You’re right, let’s get back on track. How come Cryer still had to pay his taxes? With added interest, as well.
April 11th, 2008 at 8:40 am
Given the 16th Amendment was never ratified and paying income tax is “voluntary” , I’ll leave you to draw your own conclusions.
April 11th, 2008 at 8:56 am
“Ani Says:
April 11th, 2008 at 8:40 am
Given the 16th Amendment was never ratified and paying income tax is “voluntary†, I’ll leave you to draw your own conclusions.”
Ani, not killing someone is voluntary as well. We (as a society) expect people to no go around killing each other. Does that mean there is no law against killing people?
Ani, why is it that EVERY (and I mean EVERY) court that has looked at the tax protester cased have UNIFORMLY (and I mean without exception) decided that those arguments are completely baseless. I understand why you want to believe them to be true, but that does not make them true. While CKB may be lacking in charm or grace when dealing with tax protesters, he is right that they are all either a bunch of nut cases or a greedy little piggies.
April 11th, 2008 at 8:57 am
Since Benson’s “proof” is garbage and no court has ever accepted his “evidence” and since Benson’s converts have lost every case and been sanctioned for using his “theory” why should anyone care what you think? Further, since the 16th Amendment was never even thought necessary except as applied to certain types of income, but not wages, why is your argument relevant to most of us wage earners. (The Supremes never said that wages had to be apportioned.)
If you think the income tax is voluntary, consult those idiots who are doing hard time as a result of adopting similar positioons. Ed Brown comes to mind.
April 11th, 2008 at 9:43 am
For those who believe the scam that the 16th Amendment was never ratified, it must really bum you out that the Bill of Rights was never ratified either.
April 11th, 2008 at 10:07 am
For those of you who want to say that Ed was not shown the law, remember that he was convicted of the crime of financial structuring (not failure to file income taxes). So in that sense the 16th Amendment and the income tax are irrelevant.
The law he was convicted under is Title 31 Section 5322 and 5324. Now, how is that not a law?
April 11th, 2008 at 10:12 am
Ersatz says:
Ani, not killing someone is voluntary as well. We (as a society) expect people to no go around killing each other. Does that mean there is no law against killing people?
Ani, why is it that EVERY (and I mean EVERY) court that has looked at the tax protester cased have UNIFORMLY (and I mean without exception) decided that those arguments are completely baseless. I understand why you want to believe them to be true, but that does not make them true. While CKB may be lacking in charm or grace when dealing with tax protesters, he is right that they are all either a bunch of nut cases or a greedy little piggies.
Ertsatz, do you really understand? There are greedy little piggies and nut cases on both sides of the fence. The waste and abuse of tax monies goes unchecked everyday. We still have an entire gulf coast that hasn’t been rebuilt since hurricane Katrina, we have Iraq veterans without adequate medical care, homeless and living on the streets, our own troops are being poisoned, knowingly by D.U. and I could give dozens of other examples of government gone awry. Most people, I believe, wouldn’t complain about paying taxes if they knew their money was going to do good and not spent to harm others or to feed the government pigs at the trough, that never seem to get enough. What about the wealthy that get all the tax breaks, those that can afford to pay taxes, don’t. Those who are working 2 and 3 jobs, trying to feed and clothe their children are struggling to survive while the rich are getting tax break after tax break. We all want a better world, fairness, equality,basic human rights, freedom and liberty. The problem lies with those at the top, who have some serious control issues, likened to a bully on the play ground that keeps beating up kids for their lunch money.
April 11th, 2008 at 10:13 am
Cut and paste posts will all be deleted, Ani. If you can’t hold a conversation without copying the words of your scam gurus…
April 11th, 2008 at 10:45 am
To Clint and Ani:
Like Admin, I am unimpressed with cut and paste tax protestor theories which have all resulted in sanctions imposed and in some cases jail time for tp gurus like Schiff.
Read Dan Evan’s site for the latest case law. It is linked to this site under “Blog Roll.”
Clint is like most folks on the fringe — TP, militia, sovereign citizen — you cite court cases which you think agree with your positions (even though often misread) and state that any court decision which disagrees with your favorite theory is the result of “phony lawless predatory courts” and “scumbag” lawyers and jurors who have “slave” social security numbers.
April 11th, 2008 at 10:52 am
Yes Clint, some people do need to be a lemming. Some notables in that regard are the Three Stooges of the Apocalypseâ„¢, (i.e. Riley, Gerhard, & “Reno”) that followed Ed Brown off the proverbial cliff.
April 11th, 2008 at 10:53 am
JJ MacNab, what post are you referring too? I didn’t write the tax law the IRS did, most already know they are scam gurus, I was just trying to point that out for those in doubt
. As far as me being able to hold a conversation, I have to correct you there, I have no problem carrying a conversation, I bet CKB or is that “KGB” could testify to that, there are some of us here, that know WHO YOU ARE> 
April 11th, 2008 at 11:27 am
Sorry, Clint, I’m not a Fed now — but I did serve in the US Army in the 60′s and 70′s–proudly but in a time of a bad war pushed on us by weak and sinful politicians — and in another federal capacity for a while in the 80′s. None of those had anything to do with the prosecution of crimes under the US Code, which is law, whether you like it or not (and yes, I am familiar with the quibbles that the US Code is in part only prima facie evidence of the Statutes-at-Large; show me where the Statutes say something that contradicts the Code and I will agree that you are correct unless that part of the Code is itself enacted as a Statute-at-Large, like, for example, title 11).
You can foam at the mouth all you want. However, if you commit a federal crime, and are caught and convicted by a jury of your peers, you will spend some time in a federal facility that is not at all fictional. See Schiff, Ed Brown, Elaine Brown, and many of your other TP gurus.
I am a lawyer, by the way, and was a (very junior)asst. professor of American history and later a professor of law before returning to practice.
And, as bad as our government can be — men and women being frail vessels — it is still the lawful government. Yes, it has its share of crooks and bad folks — you are certainly familiar with Ruby Ridge and Wounded Knee and the Trail of Tears.
As bad as it is (even under George W. Bush), it still generally does a pretty good job in comparison with most of the rest of the world. Now, if I was not such a homebody and a chauvanistic American, I could be talked into New Zealand or Switzerland or Norway or Sweden. But, in those places, I would have to pay lots more of my income in taxes and have more restrictions on my freedoms than I like, even if I find those governing those countries more to my liking. Besides, they are pretty cold places in the winter.
Think about it a moment, Clint. Where else would you go where the government — the people who run the government — the laws — the taxes — are better?
No one expects you not to voice disapproval at the ballot box and otherwise in opposition to the government or its policies, but you live in a true fantasy land, where everythng you dislike is the result of imagined conspiracies and alien controllers.
Visit the real world sometime. It might inspire you to try to make it better.
April 11th, 2008 at 11:29 am
The big, bad Wolfe, + The red crayon leader + CKB runs with scissors= dirty laundry
April 11th, 2008 at 11:57 am
Clint, I didn’t mention Wolfe because this is a discussion of the trial of Gerhardt, Riley, and Gonzalez. Try to keep up with at least the basic aspects of the conversation.
April 11th, 2008 at 11:57 am
those whom say pay taxes, go to jail or die at gun point demanding tribute and pay are the ones whom are truely greedy SOCIALIST pigs. Ani and Clint please dont waste you time trying to educate those whom are only gaining from this tyranical set up. most of these swine you are casting your pearls before are Banksters, IRS agents, and work within the courts beit lawyers judges ect. ect. These are the people whom only profit from underhanded dealings with misrepresenting the truth. These are the very same people that support the destruction of the REPUBLIC for which it stands, their allegence isnt to our country but the British Crown, regardless if they know that or not. These are the kind of people whom gladly are slaves to the system because it benefits them plus they get they jollies seeing human suffering by homes being forclosed on which forces hard working families to the streets. Well the greedy piggies themselves are gonna be in the same boat soon enough, watch the market, see how the dollar is doing? Us that are poor, we arent so worried we are used to doing without certain luxaries, its those whom are in the uppermiddle class that looks down their noses at those without that think they are so high and mighty that will feel the real economic burn when it all comes crashing down and they will have to worry about the price of gas and food shortages, or enough angeried people suffering from starvation under marshal law goes and storms their little compounds for their goods. There will be a Revolution, there are some of us that care for our nation that we tried to advoid such things because we dont want to see bloodshed on our soil, and some of us dont like bloodshed at all and try to end the illegal wars in foriegn lands that are funded by the wrongful taxation of americans income, which not one cent goes to fund programs here from the monies collected by the federalis using mafia style tatics. Well Im at the point that I really dont care anymore if a revolution or a civil war happens here, my efforts will not be focused on trying to stop disgruntled americans from national self destruction any longer. Me and mine are fine with or without it living comfortably in our Freegan lifestyle(without having to survive on your wastefulness). Americans are pissed but those sitting in their lofty positions will soon find out just how pissed when they have thousands and millions of Ed Browns on their front lawns in front of their courts, and their businesses with their liberty tools instead of complancitly standing in the soup lines where these ass holes have forced them. Maybe some of “them” need to look what happened to those in their position history wise when the French Revolution and the Mexican Revolution happened, hope they squirm in their skins… for the day is fast approaching. But in the mean time let them overeat, grow obese, get lazy and content with themselves and their actions.Karma is a bitch. They will get out of shape and fat (some i hear are) so when time comes for them to be held accountable for their deeds and misdeeds they wont be running very far or fast.
“By the Eternal! I’ll smash them!” Andrew Jackson
April 11th, 2008 at 11:58 am
“Your fantasy world sickens most of us who are willing to do something about what these animals do to people.”
What is that something?
April 11th, 2008 at 12:10 pm
Lemming eh? Is Warren Buffet a lemming? Bill Gates? Steve Jobs? Mark Cuban? H. Ross Perot? Every President? Auggie Busch IV? Oprah Wingrey? George Souros?
All of those people either now, or when they were young and starting out did not try such meritless arguements as:
1. The 16th Amendment was never ratified
2. Wages aren’t income
3. There is no law….
Or any other of the utter dross that clowns like Clint Dare, Ani, or any of their ilk espouse as “the truth.” And when I said meritless, I mean every court has ruled that those positions are without standing, meritless and frivolous.
It is fun to watch people who barely have two dimes to rub together espouse these inane positions while living in a fantasy world where “da ebil gummint” is out to ruin them, take “their precious bodily fluids,” and prevent them from doing anything they want to do and all the while calling people who through education, determination and foresight have achieved a degree of wealth, “lemmings” or “sheeple.” Envy and jealousy are ugly emotions and you do not wear them well.
I just get the feeling that people with last names like Gates, Perot, Winfrey, Jobs, Wozniak, Lucas, Spielberg, Soros and even Trump and so forth know (as well as their “people”) far, far more about taxes than Ami, Clint, VanMeter can ever hope to imagine.
Sorry kids, the proof is in the pudding and you have none. Heck, you aren’t even close to having a recipe. So please, go back to the kiddie table and stop interrupting the adults who are trying to talk. Thank you.
April 11th, 2008 at 1:00 pm
Takingback, we’re not Feds……..
We’re reptilian shapeshifters. Get your facts straight.
April 11th, 2008 at 1:03 pm
Educated lemmings just don’t get it, it’s not about the money you fool, that is not where true wealth is, at least not for most of us with common sense. We have wealth in ways that you could never imagine, that you can only dream of. I pity those who put all their value in material wealth, for they are detached from the real wealth they will need to survive in the coming days ahead. If you think you’re money will make you a magical sacred cow, think again, “they will use YOU” I hope you are good at reading brail, your blinders are fused to your head. You cannot see the larger picture, only a very small, secluded fraction of it. It is the visionless lemming, who falls from the cliff, poor, poor, lemmings.
April 11th, 2008 at 1:18 pm
Ani, please take this in the spirit of charity in which it is offered:
Dude, lay off of the ‘shrooms.
April 11th, 2008 at 1:32 pm
Ah yes, you are the fox who because they can never ever come close to the grapes has declared them sour and that anyone who wants them lack the “true freedom” you have.
Envy and jealousy of what you can never hope to achieve is so ugly on you.
ENOUGH!
There is a more important question still in play. When are the three scheduled for sentencing?
April 11th, 2008 at 1:50 pm
VanMeter, if you are going to look to the French and Mexican Revolutions, you need to recall who wound up getting killed and who wound up running things. In France, the aristocracy that did not flee was decimated, true; next came everyone who did not agree with the Revolution. Please read a little history. Finally, after that, Napoleon took care of the Revolutionaries. And, if you think that any of the Mexican Revolutions was more than one group of powerful folks killing another group of powerful folks for the pleasure of exploiting the Mexican people, you are sadly mistaken.
You folks know almost as much about history as you do about law.
April 11th, 2008 at 1:56 pm
Scabie (CKB),
What an obedient little lemming you are, I am sure you please the money changers, crown holders and red crayon leaders very well. You’re chomping at the bit and frothing at the mouth, asking questions like, “when are the three scheduled for sentencing”? must earn you extra brownie points. You might want to wipe that brown off your nose, or perhaps, for your kind, maybe it is a status symbol. Do you ever think that Reno has friends and family? That he never harmed anyone? Or do you just operate without a conscious, sociopathic in nature, in a robotic fashion, like some programmed, mindless slave?
April 11th, 2008 at 3:30 pm
I know it’s late in the game, and I’ve let a couple of references pass, but it is time to invoke:
“Godwin’s Law (also known as Godwin’s Rule of Nazi Analogies)[1] is an adage formulated by Mike Godwin in 1990. The law states:[2][3]
‘As a Usenet discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches one.’”
Courtesy of Wikipedia.
April 11th, 2008 at 3:34 pm
I am constantly amazed that their are people who actually believe this “FEMA Camp”, “allegiance to the British Crown” and similar B.S.
For all of the posters who claim that a revolution is coming, if your beliefs are popular enough to support a revolution, why is it that 99.9% of all Americans think you are nut cases? Why can’t you get a political candidate to support your views (yeah, yeah, Ron Paul, but even he thinks this “FEMA Camp” stuff is utter nonsense)?
One last (and real) question. Do you believe that congress does not have the power to enact an income tax as is currently “alleged” to exist by the government or do you believe that Congress (either intentionally or by accident) created a tax law where payment was voluntary or otherwise did not apply to most citizens, but then act like it was.
April 11th, 2008 at 3:38 pm
“I’m rich in that I have that much.”
“Come to my house and screw with me. PLEASE . I’ve got nothing to lose.”
Could you reconcile those two statements for me?
April 11th, 2008 at 3:43 pm
“The fact that I have no remedy for all the sorrows of the world (or income taxation) is no reason for my accepting yours. It simply supports the strong probability that yours is fake.” – with thanks to H. L. Mencken
I would still like to know when Reno, Jason and Danny are going to be sentenced. It is a valid question.
Clint Dare is talking about “the matrix” as if it really existed. That says far more about your mental acumen than anything possible. TakingBack is yammering on about imaginary FEMA camps, which shows where his mind (or what’s left of it) is at. Ani seems to be trying to justify their grey little life by denigrating everybody elses. And VanMeter is just upset that her sweet ba-boo (and now officially a dead beat dad) is probably going to be doing some serious time in a federal prison.
And for the records kids, (1) if you were trying to make a funny, CKGB, would have been funnier. Also pays homage to a fine FM station in San Diego. (2) In times of a real god-awful emergency I don’t expect the government is going to be able to do jack for me, hence my having taken certain precautions in case of such an event. (3) Not a Nazi either. The National Socialist Party of Germany believed in fascism (where the government dictated what would be produced, but ownership of the means of production was privately held), “racial puity” (which I find to be pure, unadulterated horse manure< and killing everyone they deemed beneath them, like Gypsys, Jews, the mentally and physically handicapped, eastern Europeans and basically anyone not white and Anglo-Saxon (again, more horse manure. (4) NOT a registered Republican. Registered to vote? Yes. Registered to any party? No.
Kids now days. You don’t know a damn thing. And stay off my lawn too!
April 11th, 2008 at 3:49 pm
“JJ MacNab, what post are you referring too? I didn’t write the tax law the IRS did, most already know they are scam gurus, I was just trying to point that out for those in doubt
. As far as me being able to hold a conversation, I have to correct you there, I have no problem carrying a conversation, I bet CKB or is that “KGB†could testify to that, there are some of us here, that know WHO YOU ARE> ”
Imagine that, you figured out my name when I posted my bio on the blog for all to see.
That’s ok, Patricia Webber. There are some of us here, that KNOW WHO YOU ARE, too.
April 11th, 2008 at 4:03 pm
You gotta love all the comparisons to lemmings. The people calling tax scams by what they are, aren’t the one left ruined and struggling at the bottom of the cliff, unlike you guys.
Of course, I would never compare tax deniers to lemmings anyway, because the lemming story is a myth perpetuated by Disney, and unlike tax protesters, I don’t fall for urban legends and myths.
http://www.snopes.com/disney/films/lemmings.asp
April 11th, 2008 at 4:33 pm
That’s a horrible world you live in, Clint Dare. You have my profound sympathies. (And I do not intend this statement as an insult or as a snide remark; I really do wish you could see that the
US is a lot better than you think even if it is a lot worse than I, at least, wish it would be.)
April 11th, 2008 at 4:58 pm
“and now having sex and playing video games is the current major in “collegeâ€. ”
Which one is that? Are they fully accredited? It doesn’t matter, sign me up!
April 11th, 2008 at 5:13 pm
It’s all warm and fuzzy in here, just look at all the love in the room…where’s the Scabie (CKB)? Out getting a JJ MacNad burger at the local Mickey D’s?
April 11th, 2008 at 5:15 pm
Poor Patti, all she can do is hurl insults rather than engage in substantive debate.
So long Patricia.
April 11th, 2008 at 5:51 pm
Lordy, i haven’t seen wackos this crazily enraged in a long time! What did they do, give a bunch of Oakland Raider fans internet access?
Look, ani, clint, & tba, you can rant, rave or even howl at the moon if you want, it simply does not change the fact that the laws are the laws and your buddies broke them. Therefore, they are going to jail for a long time.
And, by the way, this country survived the great depression, WWII, and the smurfs, so it will handle our current problems just fine. The normal, sane people will keep paying the taxes that give us paved roads, health care for our grandmas, relatively clean water and all the other things that go with a civilized society, ignoring malcontents like yourselves as they go about their relatively happy lives.
Now go get dressed. I heard the local chapter of the flat earth society is meeting down the road & you don’t want to be late…..
April 11th, 2008 at 5:54 pm
“Given the 16th Amendment was never ratified and paying income tax is “voluntary†, I’ll leave you to draw your own conclusions.”
Well, given that 75 years of legal precedence says you’re wrong, the conclusion is rather obvious; you are wrong.
April 11th, 2008 at 6:02 pm
Let’s stick to the facts: The 16th Amendment was NEVER ratified, which means, there is NO income tax law.
False, as the courts have repeatedly held.
Ed & Elaine Brown broke no law.
False. The jury convicted them and their convictions are final because they chose not to appeal.
The judge failed to show them the law.
False. The law is cited in the indictment.
Tom Cryer won his case and PROVED there is no income tax law.
False. Cryer proved no such thing.
Reno is not a criminal, he is a good and honest man, polite and thoughtful of others.
The jury thought otherwise.
Ask yourself, who are the violent offenders? The U.S. Marshals, they killed Randy Weaver’s wife and his little boy..did they do time?
False again. No U.S. Marshals were involved in the Weaver case. That was the FBI.
Stick to the facts? Practically every word you post is a proveable lie.
April 11th, 2008 at 6:07 pm
“Of course, I would never compare tax deniers to lemmings anyway, because the lemming story is a myth perpetuated by Disney, and unlike tax protesters, I don’t fall for urban legends and myths.”
Now, since we’re on the insane blithering idiots-path anyway, let me just add some points regarding lemmings. They might not walk of cliffs, and they certainly don’t explode when they’re provoked.
But, when approched by someone else, the common lemming defense is “stand in the light and hiss at someone/something several thousand times bigger and stronger than you”. This defense never works, although several cars actually slid of the road, lemming-goo being rather slippery and yucky.
But the neighbourhood cats had a jolly good time, back during the Great Lemmin Scare of 07.
April 11th, 2008 at 6:23 pm
Ani/Patti – I am doing something you may have heard of – actually several things simultaneously – they are:
1. Working
2. Helping others
3. Multi-tasking
4. Using my brain as something other than a skull cushion.
The fifth item you might actually do – I am contemplating how much trigger time I can get in while on vacation next week – in a safety conscious manner. Police your brass people.
April 11th, 2008 at 6:44 pm
A quote:
“TakingBackAmerica Says:
April 11th, 2008 at 6:32 pm
CKB…..â€working†= screwing the American citizens
“Helping others†= the White House
“Multi-taskingâ€=taking notes for Homeland Insecurity
“using my brain†= learning how to screw the American citizens
I WOULDN’T WANT YOU FASICIST JOB.”
Taking back, you and three other stooges like you could not do my job. You lack the education, the knowledge and expertise, individually or collectively to do it. Also, your absolute disrespect for (apparently) any authority (or hierarchical chain of command) would probably get you sacked within 6 fortnights.
I do not “screw the American citizen.” That’s done by Sales and Marketing – a whole different department
And no, I do not work for the Federal government becaue (1) they could not afford me and (2) working for the government in almost any capacity sounds like slow, soul-sucking death.
You will find that most, if not all the people posting here who are four-square against your pet ideas, do not work for the government – probably for the two reasons cited above.
Personally, I think you and others doth protest overmuch about the government. Perhaps out of some secret, fetishistic need/want to work for them, or because they turned you down for a job.
April 11th, 2008 at 6:51 pm
“Police your brass people.”
Even better, save it for reloading (unless you shoot a Glock 40)
How can we have a .gov that is soooo powerful and controlling that they engineered the 9/11 attacks, chem trails, and FEMA camps in secret, but cannot pass a simple tax law that requires people to pay income taxes on wages?
Which is it? Super smart, secret and powerful .gov, or super stupid, incompetent .gov?
These are not internally consistent ideas….
April 11th, 2008 at 6:54 pm
These are not internally consistent ideas….
…shhh, they don’t like it when you talk sense to them…
April 11th, 2008 at 7:03 pm
CLINT your little narrowminded PEA brain is showing in your comments, I suppose you also think that andyone of German heritage absolutely has to condone or follow Hitler. WRONG, but on that point I will argue if studying history there is MANY countries that have committed horednhous things throughout history. DOES THE US FORGET BLACK SLAVERY SO QUICKLY ???? SHAME on you CLINT
April 11th, 2008 at 7:04 pm
How does your brother-in-law feel about you wanting to bite him in the butt? Or would you rather keep it private?
April 11th, 2008 at 7:07 pm
Clint Dare wrote, “Truth is a serious thing.It hurts,and it sets free.It helps,but it destroys.It’s real but it’s laughed at and ignored.”
Truth hurts, destroys, is laughed at and ignored.
I’m hurt, destroyed, laughed at and ignored.
Therefore I know the truth.
Quite the syllogism, Clint.
April 11th, 2008 at 11:48 pm
It seems you both had enough to drink already, atleast I hope that’s what it is.
Is there a conspiracy theory you do not buy into? Have you ever considered the possibility you are mentally unstable?
What kinds of things do crazy people believe? Do they closely resemble your beliefs?
You two are not making coherent arguements, and any coherent arguement you cut and pasted are allready covered:
http://evans-legal.com/dan/tpfaq.html
Seriously, and I’m not saying this to be an asshole, seek professional help (psychiatrist, counselor, something). If you really believe everything is controlled by Freemasons, Jesuits and the Illuminati you are not mentally sane and you should really get help, you have no grip on reality. It is really quite sad and I hope you get help.
April 12th, 2008 at 12:25 am
The people here advocate paying their taxes, why do you assume money is the most important thing to them?
You are the ones who swear up and down you don’t/shouldn’t have to pay taxes yet in the same breath say how unimportant money is. If it’s so damned unimportant why not just pay your taxes?
Seems to me the taxpayers are the ones who have come to the realization money is not the most important thing in the world, it is you who seems to advocate WWIII over a tax bill.
Again, it is not mentally sane to subscribe to so many conspiracy theories.
—
“It should be very entertaining to watch these city sheeple try to survive when shtf”
Putting aside the vague futuristic conspiracy theory you put forth this sentence is telling that you would find watching so many people suffer and try to survive “entertaining”. It is quite sadistic.
I say again, you are mentally unstable, talk to someone, get a different hobby, I think a big part of Danny’s problem was a seeming inablity to distinguish fantasy from reality and an inability to grasp the seriousness of the situation. Do not take that same road, if Danny had spoken to a counselor about his beliefs at some point he may be enjoying a different life now.
April 12th, 2008 at 12:27 am
The posts of the age 13 and under crowd have been deleted.
Please don’t feed the mentally ill and/or trolls.
April 12th, 2008 at 12:57 am
you missed a few i see, ones that CKB are still posted lol!
April 12th, 2008 at 1:04 am
CKB’s and your comments have all been left intact.
April 12th, 2008 at 1:57 am
Careful VanMeter, the feminine form of troll is I believe) trollop….. I could be wrong
And I know I am not mentally ill……that’s what all the voices in my head tell me at least, especially the ones called Muad Dib and Vladimyr Harkonnen…….
April 13th, 2008 at 8:03 pm
lol at least your voices arent woody allen and gilbert godfry… talk about headaches!
April 14th, 2008 at 10:37 am
Or Lewis Black’s voice!
April 14th, 2008 at 11:48 am
Wow, I took a couple of days off, and look what I missed! LOL
I did check back into those messages to refresh my memory, and Reno did indeed tell me that there is no law which requires people to pay income taxes.
I still stand by my statement that he was quite polite to me; reading those messages again has not changed that impression at all.
April 14th, 2008 at 7:32 pm
ElfNinosMom
They are taking your name in vain over at NH Underground Forum for calling Ed Brown a Red Neck.